Random stuff
Posted by Paul Cox on June 15th, 2009
Item 1: I’m as frustrated as anyone else at the lack of info coming from the negotiations… but I’m personally more frustrated that even the basic ground rules of things haven’t been released.
I don’t mind if they don’t want to release information that’s traditionally kept hush-hush, but some of the most basic questions- like what happens if we don’t ratify, what the ground rules are for arbitrating articles (read: PAY) that can’t be resolved at the table, whether or not the evergreen clause in the Green Book is being (rightfully) recognized, etc… not knowing that kind of thing leaves NATCA’s membership in the dark.
I can tell you one thing: As far as I’m concerned, if this negotiation were carried out with a ground rule that says “we remain on the White Book until we have a ratified deal”, it’s an invalid negotiation in my mind. All the same arguments about the previous “negotiation” would still be true, and the FAA is still negotiating in bad faith.
Item 2: I forgot to include a link to Jim Ullmann’s web site in my endorsement last week. You can see his web site at www.jim4rvp.com. You can find links to all the candidates’ sites at www.natcaelection.com, which is an offical (and neutral) project run by The FAA Follies.
Item 3: More endorsements coming out this week. I’m trying to decide whether or not to leave comments on or off for them. I know perfectly well that it’ll draw plenty of people commenting, since this is something they have strong feelings about, and frankly I don’t know if I want to bother policing the comment section in that case. Now’s the time to chime in, either in favor of or against having comments on the endorsements for EVP and President.
June 15th, 2009 at 3:53 am
this is such a win-win for management. lets see, if the controllers ratify anything that is less then the green book rules plus what we’ve lost since 06, management wins. if the controllers don’t ratify and we remain on the IWRs, management wins. exactly where is the incentive for management to negotiate a fair contract? so the moral of the story is, MANAGEMENT WON! they got the high end, most experienced controllers to retire. people will vote yes to anything that remotely looks better then the IWRs, especially the new people because to them everything is an improvement. so when it comes down to it, management won. and that pisses me off more then anything.
June 15th, 2009 at 6:01 am
I and every “new” controller I know will turn down any contract that doesn’t pay us on the same scale as the green book. The thing that new controllers don’t care as much about is the dress code.
If our pay doesn’t match the “A-scale” we won’t ratify.
June 15th, 2009 at 6:14 am
On another note, what really annoys me is the last sentence in the National Office Update for the week of June 8th per Pat Forrey:
“No matter the results of the efforts over the past four weeks, NATCA will always continue to advance our professions and improve our working conditions.”
Call me a pessimist but that just sounds like he’s getting us ready for bad news.
June 15th, 2009 at 6:17 am
1. According to a comment on TMB:
“While the formal mediation ended last week, the process to complete the agreement is still active. On June 22 and 23, the mediators will conduct an arbitration of all remaining articles, the results of which will be binding on the parties. We have been working the remaining issues with the FAA this week and will continue through next week as well.
The mediators have called for another mediation session on Tuesday June 16th in order to bring the parties together on the few remaining articles. Those issues that cannot be agreed to by June 21st will be arbitrated on the 22nd and 23rd.”
Looks like we’re going to get screwed either way.
2. Leave comments off. They’re your recommendations and folks shouldn’t get free opportunities to take shots at you for having an opinion. When they pay the bills, they can knock on you or say “I told you so” all they wish.
June 15th, 2009 at 6:38 am
SA
i hope you’re the rule and not the exception for the “new” people.
i also will not vote for anything that has an A/B scale in it. everyone should be in the same scale for the level of facility they work in. i wonder if they’ll just widen the pay band to include the B-scalers then say, hey, they are in the band. who knows though, just a hurry up and wait thing now.
June 15th, 2009 at 7:19 am
Just remember Obama appointed a UNION hating republican as Secretary of Transportation and then appointed a PILOT who has been turned out to sea or out of the line in trail account not obeying a controller. He probably thinks this is payback time for the many times a controller has screwed me. I am damn glad I don’t work for FAA. In fact I am glad that I don’t work for an agency in DOT any longer. Mr. Babbitt don’t even know that he is employed by the Federal Aviation Administration not (Agency).
June 15th, 2009 at 7:21 am
I’d say leave the comments off. I’m not big into the endorsement thing. I think that every NATCA member needs to study the candidates for themselves and not vote for somebody just because Paul (or any other person of note) says they’re the person he supports.
Having said that, I wouldn’t mind knowing the reasons for your choices (well informed, thinking man that you are).
June 15th, 2009 at 9:12 am
I am in favor of leaving the comments on. The half-wit managers who get taken to task on this and any other site have it coming, and the new folks deserve to get educated as to how their “bosses” operate. The mindless knee-jerk, lock-step mantra that keeps showing up posted by management personnel has to get a response, because silence would indicate support for their drivel.
June 15th, 2009 at 9:14 am
John,
People are still free to vote for whom they wish. If they are that simple minded then they probably don’t come here anyhow. The only people I know that are like lambs to the slaughter are members of management.
June 15th, 2009 at 10:33 am
John-
I hear you. It’s a bit depressing to think that there are people out there who *will* vote for someone simply because someone told them to. I would hope that all NATCA members would put aside their personal issues, look at the candidates in a rational, objective way, and come to a decision on their own in terms of who to vote for.
I’d like unicorns that fart rainbows, too, but that’s not going to happen!
The reality is that a lot of people are too busy or don’t care enough to do that much research. They still want to vote, but they just find it easier to trust someone who *has* done the research or who’s more involved.
In a way, this isn’t bad; let’s face it, we all specialize in things. How many of us could live like a hunter-gatherer, completely independent from any/all other humans? Not very many; we count on other people to handle the most basic things in life. I might know how, in theory, to raise, feed, and milk a cow, but the reality is that I have someone else handle all that, so I can just go to my fridge and get a jug to pour onto my Captain Crunch in the mornings.
So maybe going off of someone else’s recommendations for voting is just part of the normal way of life.
What’s more, publications have endorsed candidates for a long, long time. Newspaper endorsements still matter, at least a little bit, in elections. I’m just deluded enough that I consider the Follies to be a news source; we have over 11,000 readers a month and cover the FAA. So maybe it’s just delusions of grandeur, but I decided what the heck, since I can’t get the word out via the BBS, I’ll post my thoughts here. What good is having a blog if I’m not going to use it?
June 15th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Put it this way From The Cheap Seats, if anything resembling a B scale is still around when this is over, I won’t be. In fact, I’ll probably resign over anything less than the green book.
And the dress code is a BIG deal. I separate airplanes best in shorts, a t-shirt and flip flops.
June 15th, 2009 at 11:53 am
B-Rat,
I hear ya. Even us on the A-Scale have been stolen from (Albeit not 1/2 as bad) but stolen from none the less. I am on the other end of the equation. Anything other than us being made whole then I will retire later this summer as soon as I can.
June 15th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
I agree with you guys. Anything with an A/B scale shouldn’t be ratified. If there is an A/B, I will resign and try for contracter or DoD because they get better benefits AND pay anways and I’ll see it as a big slap in the face.
I don’t really care about the dress code but I can GUARENTEE that the main article that WILL go to mediation WILL BE pay.
June 15th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Remember those newer employees that refused to lift a finger when MCO and Orlando split? They watched from the cab with binoculars while our sisters and brothers stood outside for hours in heat and rain fighting to stop the splits, fighting for fiscal responsibity, fighting for safety and the rights of all bum’s including those who wouldnt participate. If I had my way I we be sure those folks who did nothing would be monetarily rewarded in a like manner. Our NATCA doesnt look kindly on turncoats.
June 15th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
B-rat,
I’m not saying I don’t want to work planes while wearing a t-shirt, shorts and sandals, in fact while I worked with Serco that is ALL I wore. BUT I think the dress code is more of a hot button issue for the A-scalers than the B-scalers.
June 15th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
The “B” scale American tried on pilots years back didn’t work, at least not at first. American finally dumped the B scale for all, but now we have the regional airline industry booming – well sort of booming in this lousy economy.
But here’s a lesson for controllers I think. The airlines found a way around the regular B scale by eventually developing a new regional airline B scale.
In the end, going cheap seems to be the direction everyone wants. The fact that the President choose a Republican for DOT gives you an idea of how important he sees this job. That’s something I as a guy from Illinois find horribly embarassing.
I must admit I was a bit skeptical of Mr. Babbitt as Administrator. After the first few weeks, I’m not real impressed.
Watch your backs folks.
June 15th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Steve,
The exact same thing happened even more recently with Memphis. Newbies bought the raise hook line and sinker and didn’t look at the bigger picture just the $$ signs.
June 15th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
There was a B scale prior to the IWR. I had people sitting next to me making $30k more because they worked at XXX 10 years ago or washed out of XXX. Pay disparity is nothing new folks.
June 15th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Cynical,
What you’re referring to is “save-pay”. That is ingrained in federal law and was a part of the last contract. It is a far cry from a “B” scale, but I will grant you it’s a pay disparity.
June 15th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Save pay is ridiculous. When the guy sitting next to you with the same number of years service, same TOP and same responsibility as you makes $30k more because he/she was a training failure is absolute BS.
June 15th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
It doesn’t bother me if someone transfers here from some place bigger and makes more than me. What bothers me is that someone can transfer here making less than me, train for 2 years, wash out, and end up making more than me because my pay is frozen and his isn’t.
June 15th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Cynical,
I deserve to make more than you because of the years I put in as a GS14. Be bitter if you want, but you’re making what your making. If you’re not a true “B-scaler”, get over it and when this is all fixed, move up and go to the “show.
June 15th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
I highly doubt we’d be voting on ratification of this contract.
Management will not willingly give up their power. It would make absolutely no sense on their part to give power back to the workforce. NATCA can fight and fight on certain issues with the FAA, but they’ll never give in. This thing is going to arbitration.
We’ll see what the abitrators decide. Look for this thing to end in mid-late July. It’s been a long time coming.
Buck Fush.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:52 am
27+ Wearing Sneakers Says:
June 15th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
It doesn’t bother me if someone transfers here from some place bigger and makes more than me. What bothers me is that someone can transfer here making less than me, train for 2 years, wash out, and end up making more than me because my pay is frozen and his isn’t.
Hey Sneakers, Did lightning strike you twice?
June 16th, 2009 at 4:17 am
“Hey Sneakers, Did lightning strike you twice?”
Sounds crazy doesn’t it? It’s amazing what a tie can do for you.
June 16th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Will we even get a chance to vote on what they come up with? I am an “A” scaler and would under no circumstance vote for any contract that had “B” scale policies in it.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
First off, no one will get the opportunity to vote on a new pay scale because it’s being arbitrated (arbitraded issues are NOT subject to ratification). NATCA will never agree to a B scale and the FAA will never cave in. My guess is today the arbitrators told each party what they were going to decide if left with the issue. My guess is also neither side will budge anyway, and it be non-voteable. We’ll find out in a couple weeks who gets what.
“I deserve to make more than you because of the years I put in as a GS14. Be bitter if you want, but you’re making what your making. If you’re not a true “B-scaler”, get over it and when this is all fixed, move up and go to the “show.”
And speaking of the B scale, how many new guys realized NATCA screwed you over already when they changed the GS step system during pay reclass? Did you know if NATCA hadn’t pushed for the “step system” to be removed, you’d be getting 3% raises every year your first four years on top of all other raises? Those GS step 8, 9 and 10′s on the pay reclass negotiation team decided they needed the new guys money (since they weren’t a lot of new guys around it seemed like a good idea) and they took it. Why should they be stepped out and the new guys get 3% raises every year their first four years in the agency, and every other year for the next 9? Never mind the fact, they did. I’m working next to controller I’d be making the same base rate at that is making 40K in base above me because of the Step Stealing NATCA pay reclass thiefs.
But don’t get me going.
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