Oops
Posted by Paul Cox on May 14th, 2009
Here’s the deal: Controllers are going to make errors. We aim for perfection, but we miss. Part of being a good controller is dealing with the situation when you miss perfection and screw things up. The best, most experienced controllers almost always catch their mistakes before they lose separation of aircraft; sometimes they don’t but usually the loss of separation isn’t very bad.
And then, every so often, we make bigger mistakes:
MEMPHIS, Tenn. (AP) — A “significant error” by an air traffic controller in Memphis put two airliners too close together over Kentucky last week, leading both to take evasive maneuvers and one pilot to file a near mid-air collision report, the Federal Aviation Administration said.
Now, I don’t mean to be bagging on the person in question. Hell, I’ve had two “deals” (operational errors) myself, and one of them was even my fault. (The other was the pilot’s, but I was the NATCA VP at the time and had just been slamming the QA manager a couple of weeks prior, so when they got too close, guess who took the fall? When that guy (QA manager) retired several years ago it was one of the best things that has ever happened to Seattle Center.)
But there’s a few things I’d like to point out here. (From the same news story):
(NATCA Facility Representative Ron) Carpenter blamed the error on the inexperience of an air traffic controller still in training and on short staffing of the Memphis Air Route Traffic Control Center, which monitors high-altitude flights within a 250-mile radius. Carpenter’s union and the FAA have long been at odds over a shortage of certified controllers nationwide.
The controller involved in the incident was certified on the radar position he was working, but hadn’t completed further training for full certification, Bergen said.
Kathleen Bergen is one of the FAA’s PR flacks. She is regularly trotted out to lie for the people in charge.
FAA spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said Tuesday that the cause of the incident was still under investigation, but the controller has been decertified and ordered to undergo retraining. The American pilot filed a near mid-air collision report with the FAA, Bergen said, which was optional.
So let’s see if I have this straight. The investigation into the event isn’t done, the cause isn’t determined yet, but they’re decertifying the worker already anyway.
That’s a perfect example of the FAA trying to look like it’s doing something to correct the problem… even though they don’t know exactly what the problem is yet.
The FAA has classified the incident as an operational error, “but it was a significant error,” Bergen said.
Look… they’re ALL significant, because they all mean someone screwed up and safety was compromised. Yeah, some of them are worse than others, but EVERY error is something that we should have avoided.
But more importantly, what I wanted to point out here is that this person they’re referring to as a “controller” really isn’t. They’re a TRAINEE. They were apparently certified on this one sector too soon and could use some more training there; thankfully, they’re going to get that, or so it sounds.
The FAA, though, regularly claims that they’ve “hired controllers”. For example, check out this quote from an FAA press release:
The FAA plans to recruit and hire more than 17,000 new air traffic controllers over the next 10 years. Over the last three years, the agency has hired 5,000 new controllers and plans to hire more than 2,000 in fiscal year 2009.
That, folks, is a damned lie. They don’t hire “controllers”. They hire TRAINEES. They’re not controllers until they’re fully certified; when they’re only partially certified, they might be authorized to work a given position on their own but the reality is that they are still a TRAINEE. They are not as experienced as a fully certified controller, and they have a higher likelihood of getting themselves into a nasty situation.
Now, many- indeed, most- of these trainees are doing a great job. Heck, even the trainee in this situation in Memphis might be doing an overall great job of progressing through training. This was probably an exception to the norm. I don’t know, I haven’t emailed anyone down there to find out. And some young, relatively inexperienced controllers are still stepping up and doing fantastic work, like the folks down in Florida a few weeks ago.
But each and every time you read a story where the FAA claims to have “hired controllers”, remember: They’re lying. They don’t hire controllers; they hire trainees. The controllers are retiring and they’re replacing folks who have decades of experience with people who have none.
And we’re short-handed, and there’s no excuse for it; we knew for years that the retirements would come. They did, and worse still, they happened faster than predicted because of the FAA’s own actions driving people out sooner than expected.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:13 am
They are hiring “controllers” and sending them into the field so we can spend 2 years doing what the screen did in 3 months.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:13 am
What I don’t get is didn’t the trainee file on ATSEP within the 24 hour time period to avoid being decertified? If not, then why didn’t he?
May 14th, 2009 at 4:37 am
ATSAP isn’t being used by the southern region yet.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:13 am
I like this analogy best:
The FAA hires “med students.” It takes 4 years before these students are “doctors.” What hospital would send a med student into a heart surgery ALONE after 1-2 years of education / training? The FAA is doing just that. Until everyone wakes up and realizes this, the errors will increase. Nothing will change until tragedy strikes. WAIT, it has, yet nothing has been done! Typical FAA lies.
May 14th, 2009 at 6:01 am
We had a similar situation with a trainee, certified on a few sectors, having a nasty NMAC bewtween a heavy jet coming in from over the ocean and another IFR jet.
In another instance I had a front row seat for a three deal (Ok 2 and a proximity event) air show, which would have been four if I hadn’t stopped a climb and issued an immediate turn to an aircraft in the sector I was working, adjacent to the trainee’s.
We are doing all of the screening out in the field now, and unfortunately in some cases that involves after a sector or two has been certified on. The trainee in the second scenario NEVER worked airplanes at my facility again after that day.
Bring back the OKC non radar school, pass fail, and STOP sending zero experience new hires to ATC 10 and higher terminal facilities.
May 14th, 2009 at 7:26 am
if your good at a video game, you can be a good controller!
that’s faa mentality!
May 14th, 2009 at 7:41 am
I am an OTS hire and what the SCT guys says about trainees at his facility really pisses me off.
Its fu**ing pathetic how the FAA puts these people in situations where failure is almost a certainty. This is no joke. This is their career. They could have kids and a family to support. But they don’t give a rat’s ass. They just want the numbers look good. And they don’t. Failure rates are high at these facilities because of complexity and volume of traffic, and the FAA continues to look the other way claiming safety isn’t compromised by putting OTS hires in these facilities.
Wake up FAA!!! It’s a lose lose situation for the facility and the trainee. He ends up leaving and wasting tax dollars at a facility he never certifies at, more operational errors occur and compromise safety, and the public is put at risk.
I got lucky. When I applied I knew nothing about air traffic, and I applied to my local airport. ORD. I had no idea what I would be getting into had I been assigned O’Hare. I ended up getting a different airport that was a level 6 instead. I couldnt be happier. It isn’t a cakewalk, but its an easier and less stressful transition than O’Hare would be and Im not scared to plug in (those who remember their days of training at busy facilities know what I’m talking about).
Thats where the majority of the OTS should be going. At facilities no higher than a 9. But since there is absolutely no incentive for people who’ve been in the agency for a while to transfer to SCT or N90 because it’s 10 times the work including overtime and for little to no pay raise, and sometimes even a pay cut.
This is a problem that will take a while to fix. A contract will do little to fix it, and no one wants to transfer to a 24hr facility and work 6 days a week. But a contract is certainly a start.
May 14th, 2009 at 7:51 am
There is no screen, I worked at OKC for two years after retiring, the academy is delivering just what the FAA wants, a 95% pass/success rate for the students…most of these students are CTI with hundreds of thousands in student loans and I felt bad for them but we had no choice but to send them to their facilities. After all, it is the STUPES from the regions/facilities that come out to OKC and suck up 2 or 3 days of per diem and then evaluate and pass these kids back to you in the facilities to weed out. They don’s ask or want to know what we, the instructors ever thought about the kids, the class leads know it’s all a number game…oh well- back to the pool. Good Luck!
May 14th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Snakey’s long term staffing “solution” requires a 90% pass rate in the field LOL.
The Socal towers, with the exception of LAX and VNY are already getting washouts from SCT, have been for some time in fact. We have two recent failures from my area alone, both CTIs, waiting to see which tower (if any) they will get.
And FAA wants to continue the Bush Blakey agenda…..so Babbitt is going to have a lot of work on his hands and he’s going to need NATCA’s help.
May 14th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Vroom Vroom,
Amen to that. I feel terrible watching people come in and train literally terrifed. I agree 100%, it isn’t their fault. It is the result of the FAA upper management mindset that anyone can do our job, with all our whiz bang simulators the new hires are coming out “80%” ready. So they send them into our busiest buzz saws and act surprised when we lose 7 out of 8.
The old OKC screening program has been moved to the facilities now, so the DC HQ crowd can point to the Academy graduation rate and tell Congress, “See, look how good we’re doing!!”
Bob Marks the Brillster
May 14th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Terrified. Not terrifed. I was terrified typing that.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
There is no standardization prior to a person getting to the facility. CTI’s and off-the-street go thru the academy with different types of aviation education. Some CTI’s are exposed to radar simulation,some to tower some have no simulation exposure whatsoever just book learning. The FAA needs to do a better job of evaluating the colleges that they approve CTI.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
27+ Wearing Sneakers Says:
May 14th, 2009 at 4:13 am
They are hiring “controllers” and sending them into the field so we can spend 2 years doing what the screen did in 3 months.
Sneakers: You are ooold. The screen was 4 months. And we can’t fail anyone because it means the accelerated training program doesn’t work. we just train the duds til they retire or die of old age. NEX-GEN Air Traffic Monitors MY A$$!!!!
May 14th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
When this whole fiasco started (the recent one involving the staffing crisis, not one of the other dozen FAA f**kups), I remember the FAA standing on one main point: “We will be able to streamline training and certify new controllers in a year or less, due to our new simulators and blah blah blah.”
I said at the time that this was complete fantasy, and for the FAA to base EVERYTHING, to base ALL their staffing numbers on this point was a HUGE miscalculation. I was right. The FAA bought into their own bullsh!t, but are too weak to admit their mistake. So they gamble with the flying public’s safety, the sanity of the remaining controllers, and the financial lives of their newest employees. As Winger often sarcastically said “Wunnerful!”
Many people should be fired for this, but sadly, the FAA is nothing if it’s not consistent…..and that means those very people responsible for this train wreck will probably be promoted.
(sigh)
May 14th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Management BAD … Controller GOOD
Management BAD … Controller GOOD
Same ole same ole from most of you guys.
If its that damn bad bad, why don’t you quit?
Maybe because it’s not that bad, the money is great, and you can’t do anything else?
Don’t sweat the small stuff. Go to work, do what you can, and get the hell out of there.
May 14th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
^^Back to the FAAMA board loser.
Before you go let me ask what kind of advanced education do you have that justifies taxpayers spending $150k+ for your 8 hours TOP a month? Bachelor or Master’s degegree…? Oh that’s right, NONE! If the FAA were run like the private sector traffic dodging fashion critics like you and other spinless phlegms would be scanning cheap beer at Wal-Mart.
Grow a back bone and stand up for what’s right for a change and maybe some of us may have a little respect for your “work.”
May 14th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
BTW, how about an edit function??
May 15th, 2009 at 5:55 am
Management BAD … Controller GOOD
Management BAD … Controller GOOD
(FAA stupid and FAAMA even more stupid, to think Blakey’s training “plan” would ever work)
Same ole same ole from most of you guys.
(Same ole crap from FAA. Keep pounding zero experience new hires in to the busiest terminals. It doesn’t work. When you’re in a hole, the first step is to stop digging Skippy)
If its that damn bad bad, why don’t you quit?
(Why don’t you kiss my a**. Just because you management chumps bought in to Blakey’s BS, I should quit my job ? Lose my career and pension ?)
Maybe because it’s not that bad, the money is great, and you can’t do anything else?
(And what else can you do ? Answer the phone, open and close a few sectors and slap on a chessy neck tie before you go to work ? Controllers earn their pay every day….can you say the same phone boy ?)
Don’t sweat the small stuff. Go to work, do what you can, and get the hell out of there.
(LOL there’s some sage career advice. Obama, Babbitt and NATCA well fix your mess. We’ll bail you dopes out…just like we always do)
May 15th, 2009 at 6:07 am
One more thing, you say the “money is great”
No need to thank NATCA for reclass phone boy.
And your hero Blakey has been cutting and freezing controller pay….even after her ugly a** departed the fix.
You have a lot of nerve phone boy, talking about money.
You take a pay cut since September of 2006 phone boy ?
No you haven’t.
NATCA is about to go back to the table (in fact may already be there), with Garvey mediating. Maybe you’re the one who should quit or retire.
May 15th, 2009 at 7:02 am
Hey Quit Cryin,
Take the blinders off. Typical moronic management response. You accuse the controllers of whining, but fail to actually address the issues that we are “whining” about.
This thread is about how the FAA created a staffing disaster and is now trying to fix it by fast-tracking people who shouldn’t be fast-tracked into a job that can’t be fast-tracked. How about you address those points rather than just take shots?
I can agree to disagree. But you have to say something intelligent first.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:25 am
The dumbing down of the air traffic control career. Thanks to NATCA, the weakest links are still with us after hanging on for 25 years. Now the weak links are remembering how tough it was and how easy it is now for the “kids.” The weak links are now the grizzly veterans who continue to tell the world how things really are. God help us.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:57 am
New thought for Backs Caucas,
The place for the “weakest links” you refer to is really FAA management. It’s the safest place for them to be. It’s been that way for a long time. And, they tell the world how things really are. And, they tell the new “kids” what the real situation is.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Hey Cauc-ass, what’s your career progression ?
And how long have you been robbing the taxpayers wearing a chessy neck tie ?
Weak link….you sound more like the missing link.
May 15th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
absolute true story. A buddy who’s a stupe at ZMA said he goes in to work two days a WEEK with NO assigned duties. 40% of his time on “duty” is unassigned. Yeah, they are critical for safety…(sorry Brian).
May 15th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
THis is EXACTLY why there should not be combined Dside and Rside training. For those of you that dont know its called FUNCTIONAL TRAINING: you take a kid from the Academy, but them thru the JOKE that is D and R school put on by WCG or WHo ever they are now. and then the kids come to the floor and train 1 d and 1 r.
Memphis, Houston, Chicago and Miami are all doing it. So this “trainee” prob isnt even certified at all the Dsides in his area and is working the Radar.
It lets the FLUBS use them as staffing and they dont get any experience (seasoning).
if we compare it to med school its like letting a doc in training perform open heart surgery before they know how to analyze the REST of the pulmonary system.
Here in ZMA, a number of OJTI’s had written letters to the FLUBS and ATM saying it was unsafe, that a A side shouldnt be working radar without seasoning.
Their response was that Seasoning is not quantifiable and therefore unnecessary. Funny thing is, seasoning is ON THE JOB EXPERIENCE AND ever other person to certify had to have ATLEAST 6 months of it before this DYSFUNCTIONAL TRAINING came about.
May 15th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Ripping off the new hire kids with the B scale and screwing the A scale on CIC CIP and base pay raises, allows management to hire as many as they want in to their ranks and cut nary a dime from their wages.
Yet management schlubs like phone boy have the unmitigated gall to come on here and tell us the “money is great”.
Yea, great for them.
We’ve got nearly 70 in management at SCT, to “supervise” 165 CPCs, 50 trainees and a dozen TMCs. Do the math.
May 15th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
At SCT they have PROHIBITED assist (D side) checkouts prior to radar certification. The reason is to save money on promotions. Now in my day at ZLA we got checked out on all the assist/D sides PRIOR to the commencement of radar training, giving us valuable seasoning time, as well as the opportunity to observe the radar position. This new FAA policy is stupid and makes no sense as it assures only two things. The FAA will claim they save money doing it this way, and that more new hires will wash out.
As to saving money, no. They will lose trainees who may have been successful if they did assist/D side first. The FAA cannot lose face now, after publicly stating new hires come to the floor 80% ready. The analogy of the medical profession is dead on. I don’t wake up one morning in a downtown gutter and apply for a job as a heart surgeon. But that is the FAA concept as to what our jobs are.
But really, they should look at the historical record with the centers and how those facilities got new hires trained. I know, I’m one of them. And 21 years later, I am the greatest air traffic controller ever seen. I am Max Brill, and I approve this message.
-if Brill disagrees with you, it is because you are wrong.
-Max Brill is bored by the most interesting man (yawn) in the world.
(I’m kidding)
May 15th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
In my day we always withheld handoff or assistant controllers certification until qualified on the radar. Think about it. How can a helper help if he doesn’t know the job? As Brother Carr would tactfully say – “….Idiots.” Hanging around a sector as an unqualified assistant controller sector is not “seasoning”, it’s horse manure. Train on the radar. Train, train and then train some more. Stop complaining. And let’s try and do better with those checks for Bob Marks. C’Mon man. Bob is 2.6 bazooma-gillion in the hole. He needs your cash for the college fund. Honest Bob Marks, would you buy a used Saturn from him?
May 16th, 2009 at 12:19 am
23 years ago a controller washed out of ZAN.
Went to Bethel FSS. Then Bethel ATCT. Then Merril in ANC and finially ANC ATCT.
Then, after getting picked up at DTW as a controller, tossed a big FU to DTW, and went back to ZAN as a supe.
7 months later, checked out on NOTHING said person goes back to ANC not as a controller, but as a ? Lateral move, so? Management says “We reserve the right to assign managers and supervisors where we need them”. Uhm, ANC already has three stupes (the limit) so now they have four? Well at least through this PP I understand.
Good luck my peeps in ANC. You will need it if she is a supe or OM.
May 16th, 2009 at 8:40 am
In the center environment, the agency has taken away all autonomy that the supes previously possessed. Nowadays they operate solely by executing the whim of the week as passed down from either an; OM, ATM, RO rock or the latest craze to emerge from the Puzzle Palace.
Through no fault of their own first and second level supervisors in today’s FFA are the most worthless positions that anyone can hold in the field. It’s easy work, no stress, money’s good, retirement guaranteed, and benefits are provided for a low impact job. Moreover there’s no prior qualifications necessary to snag one of the positions save one, one must interview well. I say let’s put these fine folks to work where they can do the most good for the taxpayer, put them back on the boards. What a boost to staffing that would provide! Not to mention the instant improvement to overall safety system-wide thanks to their higher-skill-set intellect being put to use in a practicable application such as live air traffic control. The area desk would then become just another operational position for controllers to rotate through.
If the agency were to actually abolish these positions there is one scenario that I would miss, that is watching a one-year-wonder supe attempt to help a newbie fix an incorrectly entered 6, 7, 10, amendment.
May 17th, 2009 at 7:23 am
“If the agency were to actually abolish these positions there is one scenario that I would miss, that is watching a one-year-wonder supe attempt to help a newbie fix an incorrectly entered 6, 7, 10, amendment.”
Now that’s funny!
May 19th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Tuesday, May 19, 2009
Today’s Randy Babbitt Hearing
http://ejectsturgell.blogspot.com/2009/05/
todays-randy-babbitt-hearing.html
What follows below is the Executive Summary of today’s Hearing before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, on the proposed Confirmation of J. Randolph (“Randy”) Babbitt as the next Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration (“FAA”):
1. Upon review of the Internet webcast, Quiet Rockland still maintains that one or more Senators should HOLD Babbitt’s proposed confirmation pending his written covenant to: (A) terminate the NY/NJ/PHL Airspace Redesign and (B) fire Redesign Project Manager Steven Ray (Steve) Kelley a/k/a “AeroTwink”.
2. In his opening remarks Randy Babbitt indicated his thankfulness for an opportunity to lead the “Federal Aviation Agency”[sic]. However, the correct entity-name is “Federal Aviation Administration”. Babbitt should really know what entity he is planned to lead, before he walks in the door. Then again, the Monday-before-last in D.C. I heard both an Attorney General AND a federal appellate court judge refer to my County of Rockland in New York, as “City[sic] of Rockland” instead. For that matter, I myself had a photo of Randy Babbitt up on my blog for over 2 months, that wasn’t even Randy Babbitt (although after what I have done to Sturgell, who can blame Babbitt for not making his photo easily available to me previously? – I since updated the blog posts with an accurate photo of Randy – please see above).
The point here, is that which is observed by a baseball pitcher – everyone gets nervous, but if you are going to hang a curve-ball, make sure you hang it outside the strike-zone. Don’t make a mistake WITHIN the strike zone.
The second point here is, Randy, in the event you did not know it already, we are watching and transcribing your every word, and chronicling your every step and action. I reserve the right to update and amend this summary and all my writings and postings based upon newly-gleaned information including without limitation a textual written transcription of your words today. What follows is from memory, for now:
3. Senator Frank Lautenberg led off the questioning of Randy Babbitt, by asking if Babbitt would pause or “hold” (heh, heh!) the FAA’s NY/NJ/PHL Airspace Redesign so as to include the input of interested parties including the front-line air traffic controllers who have been to date excluded from the process.
The bad news is that Babbitt in part answered the question by citing how he would “like” to solicit input from all “Stakeholders” – whom he later identified in subsequent questioning to be the airlines only.
The further bad news is that Babbitt ducked, punted, and avoided Senator Lautenberg just like Babbitt recently tried to do to me, saying that: (A) he understood there was litigation governing the Redesign, and (B) he was not certain of that to which he could legally agree, as a nominee alone.
The partial good news is that, although not clearly spoken, Babbitt seemed to suggest his own acknowledgment and understanding, at least from the today Lautenberg question alone, that air traffic controllers have not been active participants in the FAA’s Redesign efforts to date. Babbitt said he would “try” to get input from the ATC’s on the Redesign to the extent the law allows. Yet Babbitt did not agree to hold or pause the Redesign.
4. Babbitt said he “left college early” in 1966, and thereby seemed to indicate that he may not have graduated college. I intend to otherwise leave Randy alone on his background, spoken words, and delivery thereof, until he finally communicates to us whether he will terminate Redesign and fire Steve Kelley.
[He’d better].
June 4th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Does anyone have any information on the Murder of an FAA inspector in Texas
from the Detroit FSDO?
On that same line of concer does anyone have any info on the Death of a FAA
inspector from the Cleveland FSDO. Ron Drake?
And last but not least I heard a rumor that Art Mueller died as of late.
Any intel on that would be greatly appreciated.
Derrick.